We Fight As We Breathe: A Q&A with Mamuka Mamulashvili
A thoughtful conversation with the commander of the Georgian National Legion Ukraine on Putin’s attempts to reanimate the corpse of the Soviet Union and why supporting Ukraine is the West’s best play
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Author’s note: On September 23, reporter Adam Sybera and I interviewed Mamuka Mamulashvili, Commander of the Georgian National Legion — Ukraine, at Bette’s Happy Hour. Mamuka has been fighting in Ukraine against the Russia invaders for more than a decade, survived multiple assassination attempts, three poisonings, and 32 years of war. At the age of 14, Mamuka took part in the Georgian-Russian war in Abkhazia. Towards the end of the conflict, he and his father were taken prisoner. Mamuka spent three months in captivity and was later released through a prisoner exchange program.
What follows is a transcript of the interview, lightly edited for clarity and brevity.—hsc
We Fight As We Breathe: A Q&A with Mamuka Mamulashvili
A thoughtful conversation with the commander of the Georgian National Legion Ukraine on Putin’s attempts to rebuild the corpse of the Soviet Union and why supporting Ukraine is an insurance policy for the rest of the free world
Heidi: I’m grateful to meet people who live in truth and understand reality, because there’s a real shortage of it. And so every time I speak with somebody actually in Ukraine, there’s no confusion about who the enemy is and what’s going on.
Mamuka, you’ve been fighting Russians most of your life, and what do people in the West misunderstand about Putin’s intentions?
Mamuka Mamulashvili: Actually, I’m surrounded with people who not only understand, but know exactly what they’re fighting for, and those guys are, moreover, giving their lives for their beliefs, and they’re serving the truth. They’re serving something good. And a lot of them die in this battle.
So back to the question what the West does not understand. Too many in the West still think that Putin is a rational actor who wants some limited security guarantees, and that’s all he’s asking for. In my opinion, this is a very dangerous illusion.
Putin’s project is more imperialistic. He wants to take over control on ex Soviet Empire. He wants to delay democracy and all democratic values — delay democracy on his own borders. With this move, he makes his own people understand that freedom is impossible.
And every time the West hesitates or compromises, he interprets it as a weakness, and he starts acting. So an example, he can take Georgia, because Georgia was the first country Russia invaded after the collapse of former Soviet Union. Chechnya — I also took part in both campaigns — and then the full-scale invasion in Ukraine, at last.
I see it as one continuous line — I personally took a part in all the fights that started in the 1990s after the ending of Soviet Union. And despite everything, Putin is still trying to rebuild the corpse of the Soviet empire in some other shape. His mission, his ambition, is to rebuild whatever was lost.
Heidi: Thank you so much for that. I think you said the corpse of the Soviet Union. And I think that’s a great line, and I intend to use it. At great risk, you fight for Ukraine. Why?
Mamuka: It’s not only my fight. It’s not only a fight of my comrades, it’s more global. It’s a fight for existing of democracy. Ukrainian front Lines are the front lines of the whole free world.
Georgia has already experienced what Ukraine is going through right now, and compassion is the word why we are here.
Whatever is happening in Ukraine now, it happened in Georgia in the ‘90s, and we never had any modern weapons. We never had any media support. We never had anything that Ukraine has today and Ukraine needs more, though Georgia never had any support, and it resisted the Russian Empire in 1992-‘93 — that’s where I got in captivity. That’s when I started learning Russian in captivity, and that’s where my fight started.
So you know, it’s a fight for every normal human being.
We cannot avoid the fight that solves a lot for the modern world. And for me and for my guys, it’s an honor to participate in it, because it’s a war that shows us black and white.
So most of our guys who are in the Georgian Legion are well educated, bachelors, master degrees or PhDs, and today, they’re holding weapons and doing their job. And it’s a fight for values that you have, your inner values. And they are not hesitating to die for the values they’re fighting for.
Heidi: It’s so moving to hear you talk like this. I feel so many times that I’m just screaming into the wind and hearing you so eloquently state reality is special. I focus a lot on disinformation, and I’m understanding more and more how disinformation paves the way for actual war, how staged events that are shock events often pave the way for war. And you had a very eloquent way of explaining what role disinformation plays. Can you educate us, from your point of view, how these two are intertwined?
Mamuka: Georgian Legion had even some courses for Ukrainians, the Ukrainian community who lives in the US — we were doing those lectures before the full-scale invasion, and we’re talking about Russian disinformation, how it works, why we should be aware of it, and how disinformation is the first stage of every Russian war.
It prepares the ground for creating fear and confusion before the first missile falls on the ground. So we have to understand how to counteract it — we have to understand very simple narratives that Russia is spreading, for example, about Nazis or Russian speaking people like they started talking about right before the invasion in Ukraine — as if the millions of Russian speaking people in Ukraine need support of Putin.
So West does not really understand much of this propaganda, and it is very dangerous. (Author’s note: one word: Sudetenland.—hsc)
And you know, I think more podcasts should be speaking about Russian disinformation campaigns, why they appear, how they appear, what they target, how they work, how they are paid.
After the disinformation campaign against Georgian National Legion, we started investigating, together with security services and the Prosecutor General’s office of Ukraine, how this disinformation works, how they are sponsored, what ways they are paid, and so on.
It’s quite a complicated process. And Westerners are not vaccinated for that.
Western society is not ready for Russian disinformation.
The disinformation that was launched against Georgian Legion — Georgian Legion has always been one of the main targets of organized Russian disinformation campaigns — it was on Twitter, on other platforms, and it was a very well organized disinformation campaign.
They used narratives to discredit Georgian Legion, to make supporters and donors stay away from Georgian Legion. They try to damage reputation, discourage volunteers, and discourage people who were trying to join Georgian Legion in Georgia.
So there were several targets, and the campaign was divided into several attacks. One of them was on Georgian society, because main source of accepting volunteers was of course from Georgia, and so they targeted Georgian media, pro-Russian Georgian media, because, unfortunately, we have Russian government in Georgia also.
So whatever was said by the disinformation campaign was in Russian media, media like Russia Today, and in media that supports Russian narratives in Georgia. They were very well organized and tried to do maximum damage.
So today, Security Service of Ukraine is already involved in the process. Prosecutor General’s Office is involved. Some of the attackers have been investigated, and the investigation is ongoing. And I’m sure that sooner or later, it will take time, all those people, who participate in such campaigns will be punished by the law of Ukraine.
Heidi: Again, this is very inspiring to hear. I know that from what I read about the campaign designed to discredit your guys, that many people who were targeting you were in America, some in UK. So this is a worldwide thing.
And as somebody who has disinformation campaigns waged against me and my podcast partners and death threats, etc, we have no resources in America. Nobody who cares. The FBI didn’t care. The local police didn’t care. And if this type of stuff was happening in your face, in real life, we have laws against it, but because it’s coming through the internet, which is real life by the way, they do real damage — your donations drop, people think you’re radioactive. Nobody wants to go near it. So it’s very effective.
But I’m excited to hear that there’s actually an investigation, and that we may find out who these people are. And I’m really grateful to Ukraine for everything that the country is enduring, that they’re actually investigating something like that, because I think it’s so important.
So my next question is how do you see America in this moment? It’s probably not your focus right now, because your focus is actually, defending Ukraine, as well as through the work you do, your own country against Russian aggression. But I’d be very curious how you see America in this moment, and what you would like to tell Americans about their proximity to such dangers if you feel that our freedom is in jeopardy.
Mamuka: Truly, in my opinion, America is still the strongest democracy in the world. Democracies are not destroyed in one day. They erode when people stop defending them. And unfortunately, some Americans stopped defending it. And it will have consequences. I would say so.
I tell Americans this: what happens in Ukraine is not far from you guys. And if Russia succeeds here in Ukraine, authoritarian powers everywhere will be emboldened, and support for Ukraine is not charity.
Guys, you have to understand that it’s not charity. It’s also the cheapest insurance policy for your own freedom, for your own country. And better to stop Russians here in Ukraine now, then to fight them later at your own doorstep.
So you have to understand that it’s not a fight only for Ukrainians. I’m proud that Georgian Legion was the first foreign formation that joined the fight against Russia, and I’m proud that Georgian Legion is the largest foreign formation in Ukraine fighting against Russian imperialism. And it’s only because we already experienced everything that Ukraine is experiencing now and without any support.
The world was quiet when Russia invaded Georgia several times… nobody was talking about Georgia being invaded by Russia, and we have to learn from our mistakes.
I don’t believe that oceans are securing. United States, it’s not about distance anymore. Cyber or disinformation campaigns that we talked about, blackmailing, it already exists, and it can reach United States without crossing oceans, and we can see that… we can clearly see that Russian propaganda is doing very well in the United States. So be aware and defend your country. Guys, freedom needs now to be defended.
Heidi: Thank you, Mamuka. Adam, jump in.
Adam Sybera: Hi everyone. Good evening. Nice to see you. Mamuka, I was wondering, since we’re talking about all of this disinformation and escalating disinformation campaigns in the West, and we also see escalations directly on the battlefield, with incursion of NATO airspace by Russian drones multiple times in the last two weeks, and you as a Commander on the ground, how do you see the developing situation?
Mamuka: Unfortunately, whatever I see is that NATO is not ready to face Russian aggression. When first missile falls on Polish soil — I was speaking on national TV in Ukraine, and they gave me a question about, ‘How would NATO react?’ I said that most probably NATO will blame Ukraine.
And an hour later, we saw a statement that Poland, said that it was a Ukrainian air defense missile that fall on the territory of Poland.
The point is that, unfortunately, NATO is not woken up.
NATO countries are just starting to understand the existential threat of Russia and what might happen. They are just starting to produce goods and ammunition that might be helpful in future for European countries to defend themselves, and in my opinion, they are totally not ready to face what might happen in Europe.
Adam: I know the situation on the battlefield is tough, and we are always hearing, ‘How much longer can Ukraine last?’ We’ve been hearing this since the beginning of invasion, Russian propaganda is always saying, for example, ‘the city of Chasiv Yar will fall tomorrow,’ for like two years now.
Mamuka: Guys, let’s listen to Ukrainian resources first of all, to see the reality. Because, of course, Russia is trying to make a visibility that they are winning this war. That they are dominating and daily, they are occupying huge Ukrainian territories. It’s far from the truth.
And still, Western society is vulnerable to Russian disinformation. It is very difficult daily for them to move one square meter.
It’s about motivation. It’s about inner power that Ukrainians have, and it’s about these people are defending their families, their kids and their homes. Ukraine needs way more support than it receives from the West, especially from the US.
Heidi: This is why I write every day. And I just wrote another piece, reminding people of the Václav Havel quotes about the power of the powerless and living within truth. So this is really important stuff.
You’ve served with honor for 32 years. You have fought Russians for decades. Really, if you decided to step aside, nobody would blink an eye. They’d just be grateful for the service you’ve provided. Why do you stay in the fight? You’re 47 years old, why do you keep doing it?
Mamuka: It’s my family legacy — my whole family was killed by Russia. Actually, I don’t even have my own old surname that my ancestors had. And in 1921, when the whole family of my ancestors were killed, the only survivor was just an 18-year-old guy who changed his surname to Mamulashvili — the name I’m holding now. Mamulashvili in Georgian means son of his country.
So he took the surname and started to hide because Russians were after him. And before that and after that my family is in a fight against Russian Empire and so-called Russian values. My father was a military general. He served as a soldier in the Ukrainian army for three years, being 74, and unfortunately he died.
And my family sacrificed a lot fighting against evil. And I have to go on and duty has no expiration date. We need to fight as long as we breathe, and we have to do something when we see that somebody is killing innocent people.
We have seen that in Georgia several times, and nobody helped us. That’s why we’re here today. That’s why we understand. Georgians understand better than anybody what Russia is and what Russia did. So 1000s of Georgians are here now supporting Ukraine. We have to go on. We fight as we breathe, and it is very important for us.
Heidi: I’m so emotional from everything that you’re saying that I’m trying to talk myself back into a place of steely neutrality where I function best.
How do we make truth and facts sexy again. How do we do that? Because I just interviewed Peter Pomerantsev, an author who wrote, Nothing Is True and Everything Is Possible. His parents were Soviet dissidents. He grew up in London, worked in Moscow for a decade, and his view of America is that there’s not a lot of interest in truth right now, there’s not a market for it. And if we wanted to fight disinformation, we could, but because it doesn’t bring immediate profit, it’s not happening. This is all very tough medicine that I’m still swallowing and dealing with, but I want to know how we can make facts sexy again. You’re the guy to answer that question.
Mamuka: By making them human, visual and fast. People do not remember numbers. People remember something visual. So show the soldier pulling his comrade out of fire. Or a mother saving her small kid during the bombing of Kyiv, we have to touch the feeling. (Author’s note: I spent the last two days trying to recover emotionally from Zarina Zabrisky’s reporting about an 84-year-old goat farmer, who was murdered along with her goats in Kherson this week. Zabrisky, who was featured in the New York Post today, is trying to find a home for the 18 surviving goats.)
So show the family rebuilding their houses bombed by Russian artillery and the Russian shelling. Connect the statistics to reveal real lives.
Heidi: With all the attempts on your life, and there have been many, why do you think you are still here with us today?
Mamuka: First of all, in my opinion, it is just God’s will. And this tells me that my mission is not finished yet. In my captivity, when I was 14, I had bone breaks, and it’s just God’s will that I’m still doing the job. I’m not yet useless, and God does not want to take me.
So that’s what makes all of us stay here. We might learn something that we didn’t learn during all our lives. We should spend each day, learning something and saving somebody’s life and doing something good.
And on the other side, we change our routines, we stay alert, we adapt, we do our best. We are professional militaries. I’m not a politician who could be shot in the street by a Russian sniper. I’m a professional military commander, and it’s not that easy for Russians. Though they tried. Together with the disinformation campaign, they launched a Russian campaign to eliminate me, to assassinate me, and the Security Service of Ukraine made a very well organized operation and arrested more than seven persons who tried to kill me during 2024 to 2025. So it’s God’s will, but we are also alert. We’re better than Russians, and we are well prepared, because, Georgian Legion is not doing a first fight.
Heidi: Thank you for that. I’ve told this story before, but I wrote a book with Tupac Shakur’s bodyguard back in the day. He’s a rapper, and most of you probably know his work, and the first death threat I ever got was via fax. It came through a fax machine. That’s how old I am, and it came from the person who ran the bodyguards’ company — an ex cop...
And I remember calling my dad saying, ‘What do I do? Do I take my name off the book?’ My dad said, ‘That’s your work. No, you don’t. You keep your name on it.’ And I feel like, I’ve just walked with God and angels ever since, and whatever is God’s will. So what you said is moving, and the fact that you take precaution is also incredibly important. And my final question, on that note is, how can we best help? And anything you want people to know about the Georgia National Legion in Ukraine.
Mamuka: There are several ways to help us. You can help us with just the practical support, medical kits, drones, vehicles, communication systems, and specifics connected to military operations.
It’s quite difficult to fundraise for weapons or for ammunition, but people can help with simple things. People can donate.
Our donations were targeted by Russian disinformation campaigns. They saw that our fundraisers are moving very well, and that’s what they tried to stop. They had a mission, one of the missions from Russian was to stop Westerners from trusting us. In a way, they succeeded. I would not say that they did a good job, but they succeeded, and I’m 100% sure they will pay for that. Sooner or later, those people are going to be exposed and are going to be punished by the law of Ukraine.
And my final thought is to go on supporting Ukraine — every good word spoken helps. Continue supporting the right thing, and war will not come to your door, guys, that’s where it should be stopped, and that’s why we are here in Ukraine to stop it right here.
Heidi: Thank you for this inspiration, and the work that you’re doing.
Mamuka: Thank you to all of you.
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To help the Georgian National Legion — Ukraine — in its fundraiser for military first aid kids, you can donate via PayPal to: help2164wolves at proton.me
More about Mamuka Mamulashvili — Commander of the Georgian National Legion (Ukraine):
Mamuka Mamulashvili has been at war for 32 years. Born in Tbilisi, Georgia, former USSR, he is currently the Commander of the Georgian National Legion (Ukraine). Born into a military family, his father, Lieutenant General Zurab Mamulashvili, commanded one of the brigades of the Georgian army, which included his son as a young volunteer. At the age of 14, Mamuka took part in the Georgian-Russian war in Abkhazia. Towards the end of the conflict, he and his father were taken prisoner. Mamuka spent three months in captivity and was later released through a prisoner exchange program. His father was released at a later stage. Mamuka Mamulashvili fought in Chechen campaigns, fighting on the side of the Chechen independence forces against Russian troops… On April 22, 2014, Mamulashvili founded the Georgian National Legion. Just two days later, on April 24, the Legion arrived in Ukraine and began training Ukrainian volunteer formations preparing for war in Donbas. In February 2016, the Georgian Legion was formally integrated into the 25th Motorized Infantry Battalion “Kyivska Rus”. The unit maintained its own internal structure and command while continuing to conduct combat operations. In 2017, the Legion left this brigade and was transferred to other units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, where it continued active combat duties. In the months preceding Russia’s full-scale invasion in February 2022, the Legion actively trained civilians and volunteers. According to Mamulashvili, over 20,000 people underwent preparation within just three months. From the very first hours of the invasion, the Legion took part in the battle for Hostomel airport and in the defense of Kyiv region. Since then, the unit has remained engaged in combat operations along key frontlines.
Public Activity and Threats
Mamuka Mamulashvili frequently appears in the media, giving interviews to Ukrainian and international outlets, and participating in conferences and public forums.
Russian intelligence launched a large-scale disinformation campaign targeting the Legion, focusing primarily on the social network Twitter (X). The operation involved 32 individuals — citizens of the United States, the United Kingdom, Hungary, Estonia, and other countries. All of them were identified and are currently under investigation by Ukraine’s Security Service (SBU) and the Prosecutor General’s Office.
The Russian authorities placed him on a wanted list and sentenced him seven times in absentia, issuing a wide range of politically motivated charges. He’s reported multiple poisoning attempt with heavy metals, confirmed both through laboratory analysis and officially by the Prosecutor General’s Office of Ukraine. His latest assassination attempt was thwarted by Ukrainian security forces. More here (with English subtitles):
Awards and Recognition
Order of Vakhtang Gorgasali, 3rd Class (Georgia)
People’s Hero of Ukraine (2015, non-governmental award)
Order “For Courage” (Ukraine)
Medal “For Sacrifice and Love of Ukraine”
More than 12 awards from the Patriarchate of Ukraine
17 awards from Ukrainian government agencies, the Ministry of Defense, and other security structures
A number of other state and non-state distinctions
In September 2025, the President of Ukraine decorated Mamulashvili and the fighters of the Georgian Legion with high state honors for their contribution to the defense of the country.
In Kyiv, the city officially opened the “Georgian National Legion” Square — the first square in the capital named after a military formation, awarded to a volunteer unit.
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