‘Fascism Wants You to Betray Yourself’ and Other Lessons from Ruth Ben-Ghiat
A recap of our amazing ‘Speakeasy’ zoom salon with the great fascism scholar and ‘Strongmen’ author RBG <3
A few years ago, as I was studying historian and political philosopher Hannah Arendt, a quote of hers unlocked a key fascist tenet:
One of the greatest advantages of the totalitarian elites of the twenties and thirties was to turn any statement of fact into a question of motive.
That was a game-changer for me. It explained the emphasis by those in Trump’s orbit to attempt to create a post-fact world where truth is subverted and victimhood is on repeat.
Roy Cohn, who I profiled in my American Monster series, was the evil master of this technique — moving the battlefield away from facts of his criminality and over to the victim-questioning-the-motive-of-the-prosecutor routine. It should be noted and repeated frequently that Trump is still doing what Cohn taught him. Moreover, repeat this quote from Wayne Barrett frequently to understand the depth of Trump’s criminal associations:
"Roy is incandescent evil… the Satanic feeling that he would give you… He was the weirdest guy. He was into the strangest stuff. He was a chicken hawk after little boys, and yet he was the most virulently anti-gay guy you could imagine. And so, that was Donald's mentor and constant sidekick, who represented all five of the organized crime families in the City of New York."—Wayne Barrett, Village Voice investigative reporter
So it was fitting that we began our ‘Speakeasy’ conversation on Sunday with Ruth Ben-Ghiat — America’s foremost scholar on Italian fascism and the author of ‘Strongmen — Mussolini to the Present’ — with the Arendt quote she used in her ‘Lucid’ substack earlier that morning:
As Arendt wrote in the Origins of Totalitarianism, "the ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist.”
Here are some important highlights from our conversation with Ruth, who truly is a muse for so many trying to stay above the propaganda and rooted in a secure reality, where facts prevail and where criminals fail.
‘Fascism Wants You to Betray Yourself’
Ruth explained that fascists give their cults an entire seamless worldview that they then keep feeding. That is why indictments don’t shift the cult’s perspective, because they’ve already been told their cult leader is a victim of the ‘deep state.’
RBG: Arendt is saying that you no longer know what is true — what is fact and what is fiction. And then you're lost, you don't have any moorings anymore, you don't have any orientation. And so what happens is people often withdraw and become depoliticized. Older adults are particularly vulnerable.
HSC: And we know from studies of the 2016 election, and Facebook's impacts, that it was older adults that were sharing Russian propaganda and conspiracy theories more than any other group of our population. And so I think that they not only may be vulnerable, but are often targeted.
RBG: Trump targets them. A recent article analyzing where his contributions are coming from show about 75 percent of his donations are coming from retirees.
HSC: A Jason Stanley quote that I refer to all the time is “fascist politics creates a state of unreality in which conspiracy theories and fake news replaces reasoned debate as the common understanding of reality crumbles, fascist politics makes room for dangerous and false beliefs to take root.” It's that whole Orwellian 1984 quote where people stopped believing their eyes and ears. And why is that so important in the run up to fascism?
RBG: What fascism wants you to do is to betray yourself — to not not believe in yourself anymore. So it's not just that you don't know what to believe externally. Ultimately, it's this horrible feeling that you can't count on anything, even yourself. That's a kind of moral devastation. And that's why Hannah Arendt talked about the loneliness that happens during these regimes. It's not just that you don't know who to trust, and the networks are broken up. It's also that you don't trust yourself anymore because you don't have any firm ground. And we also have seen this in our country in the right-wing war on expertise—from Ron DeSantis putting an unaccredited propaganda machine curriculum in schools, to Elon Musk taking away blue checks so you don't know if someone is an actual expert or a bot… or the ways experts are being hounded into silence and being hated on.
‘Exposing the Device’
HSC: I’ve been writing an American Monster series, because I think it's very important that we look at Paul Manafort and his role in accelerating global fascism. We look at Roger Stone, and his role in accelerating global fascism, and we go back to Roy Cohn and his role in grooming Trump — it’s worth noting Trump's personal lawyers all have been disbarred.
I think it's very important that we study their playbooks, because when we see the game, and the game for Trump has been the same since Roy Cohn taught it to him, which is deflect, deny, countersue, and never admit defeat. And of course, victimhood. Roy Cohn looked at indictments as an opportunity. It gave him a camera, where he could then change the entire conversation, and make it about him being a victim, a patriot.
RBG: I think it's very empowering to understand the mechanisms. If you are a corrupt authoritarian you have to lead those around you to become their worst selves. Because if they're attached to the rule of law and professional ethics, you're not gonna go too far. So they have to encourage them to go down to their level.
I came up with this concept, ‘exposing the device’. If someone tells you a lie, you don't refute it, because it becomes tit for tat. You say, ‘I know what you're doing. You're saying this, because you're trying to turn people against democracy.’ So you go to the higher plane. That's an example of reacting in a way that empowers yourself and empowers others,
HSC: Exposing the device has got to be a mantra, a tshirt, everything, because then we stop combatting their planted and distracting propaganda narratives on their playing field. That is a losing proposition.
Both you and I felt a bit low when we saw a chaos agent in Congress showing pornographic pictures in order to create a terrible distraction — there is no bottom when it comes to the type of techniques that these propagandists are using. But exposing the device is exactly what we need. And can you say a few words about how we can mentally armor up going into 2024?
RBG: Reaching out to others. It’s important to reach out to those who may be in the disinformation tunnel. Find common ground, look for bridge-building techniques.
Among the audience questions Ruth responded to was a query about whether or not Elon Musk is a national security threat.
RBG: He’s getting a pass on a million things. Part of the problem is there's still this fetish in the realm of tech… But he's a fascist — I've called him a fascist troll on Twitter for a long time, and yet, he's revered in many circles as a kind of genius. And of course, it's the cult of the male tech bro genius, right? So they get a pass.
But of course he's a national security risk. It's awful. And part of the problem is also that somebody like that is a transnational being. He doesn't just work in America… any billionaire, most of them are going to have economic interests that span many countries. But he is so destructive. It's just astonishing. He's very similar to the strongmen I study, who are completely amoral.
Ruth and I both caution about the importance of self-care as we go into these increasingly toxic digital spaces.
HSC: Your Lucid interview with Simon Rosenberg was phenomenal. He encouraged us to close the loudness gap with positive information and optimism. What is a Ruthism that can play off that?
RBG: We can and should celebrate what we’ve accomplished as a multiracial democracy. Never underestimate the American people.
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Coda from Cuda:
The chat was robust as always — filled with great links and smart observations — but Charlie had the best line:
“When I get called a Marxist, I channel Groucho: ‘That's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.’”—Charlie, Bette/Lucid member
For a refresher on reports I have written with Ruth, here is a recent one from Byline Supplement:
Thank you as always for being here, and for your support of independent journalism and women who fight fascism.
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